Parrot is a foundering project on top of a wonderful vision.

Lucian Branescu lucian.branescu at gmail.com
Tue Sep 6 08:16:05 UTC 2011


On 5 September 2011 22:02, Christoph Otto <christoph at mksig.org> wrote:
> First of all, Parrot isn't mature and stable enough to justify our
> deprecation policy. Mature projects with a stable API and lots of
> production users need a deprecation policy like ours. We need to take
> out the trash. Parrot has evolved from a heritage where it was
> acceptable for our C interface to be a batch of poorly-encapsulated
> functions that poked into Parrot's internals in a fairly indiscriminate
> way. Until we've moved completely away from the code from that era, we
> need to get that mentality out of our tree. We have all kinds of junk
> that we're "supporting" because it happened to exist when we adopted our
> policy, and us keeping it around isn't doing ourselves any favors. We
> need to start thinking of DarkPAN for Parrot as a fairy tale and avoid
> invoking its name in policy discussion. We can only help users when we
> know they exist. Silent users will have to either make themselves known
> or deal with it.

Unsurprisingly, I agree. I went into GSoC knowing that Parrot had
issues and no real interop story, but what I found was worse than I
had expected.

> While I'm cutting down our roadmap goals, I also need to add one. HLL
> interoperability is a core feature of Parrot that's been broken/missing
> since 2008. We need to get it documented and working again, and it needs
> to be a roadmap goal even if doesn't have a champion. HLL interop is a
> core differentiator of Parrot, a major selling point, and for HLL
> implementers something that no other VM can offer. We need to make this
> happen if Parrot is to have a distinguising feature that will attract
> users apart from hosting Rakudo. If we can't get Tene++ motivated enough
> to get on this, someone else needs to pick up where he left off. HLL
> interop is too important to drop.

Exactly. Parrot has absolutely no interesting features about its
competitors at the moment. Current "dream parrot" only has HLL interop
as a distinguishing feature, it won't beat good VMs on other things.
It's a little sad that the best interop you can get atm. is on the JVM
(much better than parrot's).


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